Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Sybil Knight on November 3, 2011 at 5:12pm

@Ben, the right to quiet enjoyment by others has been violated. The environment at the park is not conducive to a two-year olds' birthday party, a company picnic, a pleasant get together on a date, or a myriad of other uses ordinarily exercised by members of the community. 

Permalink Reply by Sybil Knight on October 29, 2011 at 9:39am

First your group invites me to go see for myself, and when I do, your members prove to be incapable of partaking in civil discourse at the most basic level. To top it off, they attempt to intimidate by threatening to use the authority of the police to silence my right to freedom of speech in a public place; when in essence, your entire platform is based on freedom of speech. Every other post or write up is about how the police are trying to deprive you of your freedom of speech.

So, I went out and I asked. What I received in return was a lot of yelling and verbal abuse from Ashley-Dominique Green. You know... "Sunrise," the face of your public presence... the woman running the information booth?"  When I continued to ask valid questions - for instance, why did one of your members just, right now - before my very eyes, commandeer an entire case of Top Ramen that I personally delivered to the homeless for them to divide among themselves... she just yelled louder and talked faster - in an attempt to justify taking what was not theirs to take. When I did not back down or become intimidated - but continued to press the issue she threatened to call the police on me for harassment - for exercising my freedom of speech in a public place! Had my mother not been there, I would have called them myself on her behalf, then I would have filed a theft complaint. But... my mom has a bad heart and asked me to leave before anything escalated. 

Do you want to know what legally qualifies as harassment? If my  mother were to have a heart attack in front of your information booth as a result of Ashley's combative behavior. 

I don't know what kind of training you offer your volunteers, but I suggest you offer a few classes in legal terminology. Harassment is generally defined as, "a course of conduct which threatens, intimidates, alarms, or puts a person in fear of their safety." The act of my not agreeing with Ashley-Dominique trying to convince me that I didn't personally see your member take food specifically earmarked for the homeless - in no way meets the legal definition of harassment; unless the fact that somebody disagrees with Ashley scares her, in which case Ashely aka "Sunrise" could tell the police that she was frightened of me because I didn't believe her lies. 

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Permalink Reply by Jenny on October 31, 2011 at 9:25am

If these events really happened as you describe them Sybil, then there's no excuse. But I have a hard time believing that's the objective truth. Why did you give a case of food to the information booth if it was intended for the homeless? Are you saying that an OLB member took the food out of a homeless person's hands and commandeered it? I've never witnessed OLB keeping donations- even donations intended for OLB- away from the homeless. All food is shared there, as far as I've seen. Is there video of this, or did you intentionally go to Lincoln Park with the motive of starting trouble so you could cry foul online? Sunrise is human, and if you confronted her with the hostility that you display here, I'm not surprised she reacted to it. 

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Permalink Reply by Sybil Knight on October 31, 2011 at 10:22am

Jenny,

I have no reason to lie. I did not give a case of food to the information booth. I parked in front of the library and about 12 of the homeless carried the food, blankets, sleeping bags, blankets, and clothes to the South/East side of the lawn, near the statue. I was expected and they were waiting for me. The donation was for the homeless and they were to divide amongst themselves, since they best know who needs what and who takes what they don't need. They really do have a unique and effective pecking order.

I was busy opening bags when a couple of people came over and got my attention, pointed out a well-dressed man, who was carrying away a case of top ramen that had not yet been opened for distribution and 6 large cans of Tuna. I called to him and he ignored me. I caught up with him and asked him where he was going. He informed me that he was taking the food to the booth to be distributed.

Now let me make this perfectly clear. Up to that point in time, those goods were my property. The intended recipients had not yet claimed them. That is a very straight-froward and ethical statement. This could have worked out differently. He could have identified himself. He could have asked if the supplies were for OLB. He could have inquired as to how the goods were being allocated. but, he didn't.

My hostility? I went to the booth and asked why he came over and took donations that were meant for the homeless and was immediately met with raised voices telling me that all food is distributed from the information booth and they they handle all donations - but share fairly. That's all good and well, but it doesn't explain why they sent somebody all the way to the other end of the park to take what was obviously being donated to a specific group of people and had been prearranged the night before.

As I left the booth, sunrise yelled after me, "So, you think you're the only one who can play God?" WHAT?!!! Helping to feed the homeless is not playing God. It's a bit unsettling that sunrise equates being of service to those in need, with being elevated to that status of a god and is also in charge of the food distribution area.

Nobody even asked why Top ramen - or else they would have known that the top ramen was going to their night camp where they have a little propane burner and can boil water. 24 packages of Top ramen for a particular encampment that doesn't sleep at the park - even though they spend their days there.

Believe it -- or don't believe it. I know what's true. Just like I know that sunrise allowed video she took of me To be posted online, even though I expressly told her that I was not allowing my likeness to be published. Yes. it was taken down the day after I started posting about it - And I took the liberty to capture the video,including the page info onto my PC - so why deny it? Why go on the offense about taking the Top Ramen? Why do anything that you feel the need to lie about? 

OK, she posted the video - ya know what? A simple. I'm sorry - I shouldn't have - but I was pissed off at you for calling the police would have sufficed. I would respect that. OK, so an OLB member snaked a case of food and some tuna that he knew wasn't meant for OLB - A simple - "Oops!" and end of subject.

I understand that we are all human and that humans tend to do petty and hurtful things when they feel their passions have been offended - we're all guilty of it - but, Damn! own your own shit. If I've learned one thing in this world is that even a jerk can be respected if he is an honest jerk. I'm not perfect not by far - but I am not a liar, a thief, or a cheat. You can disagree with my ideals, my politics, my belief system, my way of life, etc... but you cannot make the truth into a lie by yelling louder and denying it.

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Permalink Reply by Sybil Knight on October 23, 2011 at 3:37am

I think that any group of adults who stand by chanting while a 17 year-old kid is arrested should take a step back and examine themselves and their motives. The three adults arrested made adult decisions that they are responsible for as adults. As a 17 year-old child, Jonah's actions are the responsibility of his parents, and in this case his grandparents.  How can this group claim to be the 99% when they can't even take into consideration the consequences of their encouragement on the family of the child they now refer to as "their hero?"

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Permalink Reply by BW on October 23, 2011 at 1:39pm

Lolz, when I was a "17 year-old child", I was living on my own, working and going to school. Am I hearing you say that you don't think Jonah is emotionally or intellectually mature enough to decide what he does with his own life? And somehow magically he will be on his next birthday? For me, this is not common sense.

I applaud passion and conviction, especially from our youth.The status quo is changing, values are changing. Youth are seeing more clearly than those of us in our dotage, lol.

I have examined myself and my motives, as Sybil suggested, and I remain very excited about the Occupy movement and others like it all over the world.

 

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Permalink Reply by Sybil Knight on October 23, 2011 at 3:47pm

BW, you are not Jonah. OLB was aware that Jonah is financially dependent upon his mother, and that his mother was in no position to cover the excess expense. BW, try stepping out of yourself long enough to see people in their own unique light. It's not all about you.

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Permalink Reply by BW on October 23, 2011 at 4:47pm

I am not Jonah, I am not Sybil. Very true.

It is bigger than any one issue right now. It is bigger than who is financially dependent and who isn't.To focus on this one aspect, that J doesn't support himself, seems silly to me. If he was 18 and in the same position, I don't think you would have made the comment, but he would still be (likely) the same person. And discussing who pays his bills would still be silly.

If it is compassion for his mother that is your driving motivation for posting about J, I understand. As a mother, I also feel for moms.

If I didn't step out of myself, daily, I could not be doing the work I am doing. But thank you for the reminder, Sybil.It is incredibly important that we examine ourselves rigorously. I personally look even harder at myself when something 'gets my goat', as I am sure you do.

Back to bizness, then. Without getting Jonah involved in this conversation, from here it is speculation. Actually, I would welcome his input on whether he considers himself a 'bad boy' who cost his mom money, or whether he considers himself a conscious sovereign being who made choices about something that is important to him.

Signing off,

-Beverly Weaver (BW)

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Permalink Reply by Sybil Knight on October 25, 2011 at 11:19am

Click here for Video: OLB October 24, 2011

Jonah will be an adult for the rest of his life. Right now, he is dependent, legally and financially, upon his mother. I cannot, in good judgment, refer to him as a sovereign being. The most often used form of the word, sovereign, relates to one who is independent of outside authority. The term, sovereign, is derived from monarchs and persons of supreme authority - For example, a nation is sovereign in and of itself, and should not answer to the authority of other nations.

As for my opinion of OLB, I was sickened by what I learned yesterday. There is little worse than hypocrites who protest hypocricy. Not only did OLB members stand idly by while two of there members destroyed public property, they lied to the police (on video) in an effort to protect the contents of the backpack that was in the possession of the person being arrested, they even lied about the jacket the officer took off of the arrestee's back and claimed it was theirs and not subject to search.

They posted video of the local resident who stepped forward to sign the witness complaint; even after she refused to give permission to be recorded. The media person lied to her, on camera, and assured that nobody would post that video on the internet. It's no wonder citizens no longer want to get involved when they witness a crime. 

On top of that, OLB has been lying about their part in feeding the homeless who spend their days at Lincoln Park. The homeless depend on the food donations dropped off by local residents at Lincoln Park. They don't have homes to go to at the end of the day, week, or month. It is a common and well known "drop off" point, which may have been a deciding factor in OLB's choice of "venue." Rather than contribute, OLB is taking. Its actually quite sickening when you think about it. And to top it off, Occupy Los Angeles is taking food from the Mission. I don't have words to describe how wrong it is to take from those who have absolutely nothing.

Click Here for Video: OLB October 24, 2011

 

 

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Permalink Reply by ben smith on October 26, 2011 at 9:20pm

I've camped out at OccupyLA and been there several days. All food and supplies have been donated by private residents throughout the day. I'm not sure about OccupyLB, because I've only visited twice. Who told you OccupyLA takes food from the downtown Mission?

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Permalink Reply by ben smith on October 26, 2011 at 9:28pm

Actually according to the latest polls, support is growing for the OWS movement. Turn off Fox News and your other right wing mis-information outlets. And, again, this isn't about "whining." There are structural problems in this country that need to be addressed. The ballot box is futile at this point. And America supported all of those dictatorships you mentioned in North Africa, including backing the Libyan "rebels" who violated international law by assasinating a head of state and not bringing him before the Intl Criminal Court.

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Permalink Reply by Molly Marina Haupt on October 23, 2011 at 9:50pm

Apparently my response never posted yesterday, but I think it's important to clarify that no one knew Jonah was a minor until the arresting cops informed the others at the park. He certainly does not act like a high school student and his intelligence and maturity never brought question to his young age.

Many occupiers have said that they would not have agreed with his decision had they known.

 

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